Groypers are butthurt when the author points out that they haven’t done much. Even Pepe was before them and that if Nick was such a rebel he wouldn’t be allowed on any platforms. VD has no X followers because he was banned.
There is a whole group of actual banned creators out there in the digital wilderness. It’s really refreshing when you find them. I think on some level they are meant to be hidden until you seek them out.
Owen Benjamin pulled up a clip of him on his stream the other day where Nick was going on a tirade about people recommending healthy diets to him. That type of flamboyant rejection-rant was reminiscent of a performative flaming drama kid in high school.
That was a Flammenwerfer of a review. Precisely because its judgement framework is true. You can apply the same metrics across different areas of the right: 'famous' columnists like Kurt Schlichter, a combat colonel and a lawyer who has made no real contributions in leading any rightist organization or changing law. Rush Lumbaugh left a more positive behavioural legacy among his followers than Fuentes did, but overall has disappeared without a trace. Etc. Your framework for judgement needs to be part of the Right's legacy if it's to become effective.
One small quibble. Vox did talk about r/K theory and "rabbits," but the real credit for that framework goes to Anonymous Conservative, who has also done some excellent work on narcissism that is relevant to our Cluster B society: https://www.anonymousconservative.com
I read Vox Day daily. He is among the very best. Among his many enduring achievements are the SSH (Socio Sexual Hierarchy) and MITTENS (Mathematical Impossibility of the The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection). He is also a Christian and has not fallen into the Pagan well.
I don’t think much of Day. I will, however, give him credit for being one of or maybe the first popular commenter to understand that you can’t negotiate or in any way reason with the woke left.
You raise a lot of important points related to the difference between vox and Fuentes but you are being way too easy on Fuentes.
His movement and his own track record is filled with odes to pedophilia and homosexuality.
His pledge alone that he demands Groypers take (that they will kill, rape and die for him) shows that he is trying to create a demented cult not a real movement.
To my knowledge, Vox Day has never destroyed followers lives with or without remorse like Fuentes did on Jan 6 by using a megaphone to urge them to do things that would obviously get them arrested. That also means that Vox Day doesn't look so much like some type of controlled opposition who avoids jail and deplatforming.
Groyper = surrogate activity for disaffected White men. In this sense it’s not unlike libertarianism. These are cul-de-sacs to burn off your political energy while never truly organizing or accomplishing anything real.
The fact that all of these Sigma male wanna be zoomers have fallen in behind a pudgy Mexican gay guy from Chicago is easily one of the funniest things that has happened in my increasingly long life. This is not the blood and soil party I was promised.
I'm not familiar with Vox Day, who is he? Within the Francosphere we've our own intellectuals and people who re-framed the arguments, and left behind institutions. Some such as Bock-Cote, is Vox Day like him or some of the other authors challenging the mainstream?
However, unlike Richard Spencer and the mass of the alt-right, he was not a theatre kid, he wasn’t a psychopath or criminal, and he had a genius-level IQ.
He’s sort of like Devon Stack from Blackpilled.
So it was never possible to really pin him down on any egregious error — which is why he infuriated so many people on the Left.
He is important because many trends we associate with the dark web were either pioneered or adopted early by him. These include:
((Noticing))
The importance of IQ for societal trajectory
Advocating Christian nationalism (I suspect he was the first intelligent person to do so; it is likely that neither of us would be on Substack if he had not been the first to hit this nail.)
Creating alternative media (he created Infogalactic as an alternative to Wikipedia and Castalia House as an alternative publishing house; it is likely that Susbtack would not exist without the trend that he helped found.)
He created the socio-sexual hierarchy; this is the reason why terms like alpha-, gamma-, and sigma-male are popular in right-wing discourse.
And popularized the phrase social justice warrior
Vox Day has been influential on the online Right for at least a decade. I do not know when he first appeared. And he had already been expelled from all major platforms before I became active online.
He is not well-known because he has been banned from everything for a very long time. He has been running on the credibility he mustered 10+ years ago before all media platforms launched a concerted effort against him.
He is now mostly known for the socio-sexual hierarchy and for inventing the phrase sigma male. These are the subjects he writes about most because they are the least likely to incite further ire.
He also has several substacks too. AI Central, Castalia (several of them covering different subjects of books they are reprinting), and Sigma Game (sic?) I'm subbed to most of them so you can click on my profile and find it in my followers if search fails you.
Recommend highly his take-over and destruction of the left's "Social Justice Warriors" as a usable concept for them. VERY well worth the read!
"SJWs Always Lie"
"SJWs Always Double Down"
There was to be an "SJWs Always Project" (Vox's Third Law of SJWs) but Vox got sidelined to the higher priority to write "Corporate Cancer: How to Work Miracles and Save Millions by Curing Your Company" -- essentially his warnings about and how to protect from SJWs coming in and destroying your organizations (companies, churches, social groups, etc.). And a different 'take' on SJWs "Cuckservative: How "Conservatives" Betrayed America" by Vox Day and John Red Eagle.
If you like economics; he's got several books, among the, "On the Question of Free Trade: An Economics Discourse" by Vox Day and Dr. James D. Miller PhD and "The Return of the Great Depression." Two thick books of his syndicated columns from a few decades ago. ("Innocence & Intellect, 2001-2005" and "Crisis & Conceit, 2006-2009"). I had expected them to be "old news" -- but they were 'of their time' yet also prescient! Plus some amazing fiction books and series, and some wonderful comic books.
I don’t mind philosophy stuff but am tired of economics (sorry). As to fiction I’ve just been told by pm about his fantasy story. What’s it called? Is it comparable in quality to my own? ;)
He's written several books on different subjects you might find interesting: Irrational Atheist, SJWs Always Lie, SJWs Always Double Down, Convergence, Cuckservative, The Next Great Depression (sic?), The Lie of Free Trade.
He wrote for WND back in the 90's (he knew Ben Shapiro from there) and early 00's...I recall finding him there and then jumping to his blog - which was also destroyed but he had a backup ready and it is still active: voxday.net. He used to be big in the video game scene (was a early game journo who I think wrote for EGM, or maybe it was PCGamer, can't recall right now. Alphagame.blogspot was the other blog that he started when the manosphere was a thing in the mid 00 to 2015/16....mansophere was Pickup Artistry 2.0 that progressed beyond the clown antics of Neal Strauss and Mystery and started turning the redpill lens on other subjects (RoissyDC/Chateau Heartiste helped with that too). Alphagame was where he articulated the fuller hierarchy.
If you start reading him just be ready for him to boast of his IQ every other sentence. Relentlessly self-absorbed and arrogant. He was a frontier species, great in the early days when there was nothing else to read, but now we have people that are better AND smarter.
Nick Faustes? Thanks for explaining "groyper", a disgusting word I'd until now not understood despite seeing it almost daily. Given N Faustes' predilection for sarcasm, perhaps "groyper" is his insult to his "groupies".
Not very convincing tbh. To anyone under 30 hating on Groypers just seems like older people eschewing ownership of the problems they created. Fuentes deserves a lot of criticism but he is correct about Israel and feminism, two of the most important issues of our day and age and the two issues most right wing people didn’t touch either out of cowardice or being sellouts. Same thing when people criticize Andrew Tate. Only people that are genuine Catholic patriarchs who understand the problems and actively fight against them really had any ground to stand on when criticizing these guys. Otherwise, to young guys at least, it just sounds like slightly edgier David French
In fairness I agree with a lot of what you’re saying about building institutions rather than focusing on fickle news reactions. I just think having contempt for groypers and getting mad at them for not growing up after the culture destroyed all avenues for doing so is a dereliction of duty. I’m 29 and it took me insane amounts of effort (and luck) to find a wife that could be a good Catholic mother (which required me to do lots of cultural deprogramming), get a good enough job and get continued promotions, and buy a house. For my age range there’s only like 12% of guys that have done that and I don’t think I’m better than the 88% I think we just completely destroyed society for the young to support boomers, feminism, and Israel.
Will acting like an insane man-child solve any problem we've inherited?
(I'm 31.)
This is the groyper logos and ethos:
"Feminism is bad. Israel is bad. The older generations screwed us. Therefore, we should be insufferable assholes to everyone in our general vicinity and appeal to the fact that we've inherited social decay in order to absolve ourselves of the responsibility to do anything."
"he is correct about Israel and feminism, two of the most important issues of our day and age"
So is Vox Day, but instead of just whining and snarling and complaining, VOX DAY is teaching and building things to try to stop the destruction. Groypers may have childish FUN, but Vox's "followers" are BUILDING the future!!
I appreciated Vox Day in the early days but have happily moved on. We have philosophers and leaders on the Right now who are much more stable, less self-absorbed, and smarter. Not saying Nick Fuentes is one of those people.
Vox Day got a million dollars from his supporters then lost it to financial scammers. We're talking African prince-level stuff. I have no idea how anyone takes him seriously after that.
Regardless of the influence of Vox, or the importance of all the things you are advocating here, it's undeniable that Fuentes has had and is growing in influence, which is power.
His methods are having an impact, and you did not refute that in this piece.
Never change. This is who you are meant to be. The way you are now is the way that will bring about your best life. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
And even if a thousand proofs are brought against Nick Fuentes, none of them indict. In fact, they prove his excellence — and yours. You’ll know why.
Nice. A third polemic, this time against me. Fascinating
We are not talking about Fuentes's excellence or whether he needs to be condemned. Or, well, you might be, but that's a conversation you're having with yourself.
I was only critiquing your claim that your article somehow refuted his influence. But perhaps that's a conversation I was also having with myself...
Groypers are butthurt when the author points out that they haven’t done much. Even Pepe was before them and that if Nick was such a rebel he wouldn’t be allowed on any platforms. VD has no X followers because he was banned.
There is a whole group of actual banned creators out there in the digital wilderness. It’s really refreshing when you find them. I think on some level they are meant to be hidden until you seek them out.
Which means Theodore Beale is a Gamma. As being banned is Gamma.
Owen Benjamin pulled up a clip of him on his stream the other day where Nick was going on a tirade about people recommending healthy diets to him. That type of flamboyant rejection-rant was reminiscent of a performative flaming drama kid in high school.
That was a Flammenwerfer of a review. Precisely because its judgement framework is true. You can apply the same metrics across different areas of the right: 'famous' columnists like Kurt Schlichter, a combat colonel and a lawyer who has made no real contributions in leading any rightist organization or changing law. Rush Lumbaugh left a more positive behavioural legacy among his followers than Fuentes did, but overall has disappeared without a trace. Etc. Your framework for judgement needs to be part of the Right's legacy if it's to become effective.
One small quibble. Vox did talk about r/K theory and "rabbits," but the real credit for that framework goes to Anonymous Conservative, who has also done some excellent work on narcissism that is relevant to our Cluster B society: https://www.anonymousconservative.com
I read Vox Day daily. He is among the very best. Among his many enduring achievements are the SSH (Socio Sexual Hierarchy) and MITTENS (Mathematical Impossibility of the The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection). He is also a Christian and has not fallen into the Pagan well.
I don’t think much of Day. I will, however, give him credit for being one of or maybe the first popular commenter to understand that you can’t negotiate or in any way reason with the woke left.
You raise a lot of important points related to the difference between vox and Fuentes but you are being way too easy on Fuentes.
His movement and his own track record is filled with odes to pedophilia and homosexuality.
His pledge alone that he demands Groypers take (that they will kill, rape and die for him) shows that he is trying to create a demented cult not a real movement.
To my knowledge, Vox Day has never destroyed followers lives with or without remorse like Fuentes did on Jan 6 by using a megaphone to urge them to do things that would obviously get them arrested. That also means that Vox Day doesn't look so much like some type of controlled opposition who avoids jail and deplatforming.
I’ll take your word for it. I do not know enough about Fuentes’ dirty laundry to comment on it.
Check out Chris Brunet's 50 top Nicholas Fuentes pedophile scandals as a starting point
Groyper = surrogate activity for disaffected White men. In this sense it’s not unlike libertarianism. These are cul-de-sacs to burn off your political energy while never truly organizing or accomplishing anything real.
That is a beautifully written article.
You can also find him at voxday.net and unauthorized.tv
The fact that all of these Sigma male wanna be zoomers have fallen in behind a pudgy Mexican gay guy from Chicago is easily one of the funniest things that has happened in my increasingly long life. This is not the blood and soil party I was promised.
I'm not familiar with Vox Day, who is he? Within the Francosphere we've our own intellectuals and people who re-framed the arguments, and left behind institutions. Some such as Bock-Cote, is Vox Day like him or some of the other authors challenging the mainstream?
Vox Day was the first member of the alt-right.
However, unlike Richard Spencer and the mass of the alt-right, he was not a theatre kid, he wasn’t a psychopath or criminal, and he had a genius-level IQ.
He’s sort of like Devon Stack from Blackpilled.
So it was never possible to really pin him down on any egregious error — which is why he infuriated so many people on the Left.
He is important because many trends we associate with the dark web were either pioneered or adopted early by him. These include:
((Noticing))
The importance of IQ for societal trajectory
Advocating Christian nationalism (I suspect he was the first intelligent person to do so; it is likely that neither of us would be on Substack if he had not been the first to hit this nail.)
Creating alternative media (he created Infogalactic as an alternative to Wikipedia and Castalia House as an alternative publishing house; it is likely that Susbtack would not exist without the trend that he helped found.)
He created the socio-sexual hierarchy; this is the reason why terms like alpha-, gamma-, and sigma-male are popular in right-wing discourse.
And popularized the phrase social justice warrior
Vox Day has been influential on the online Right for at least a decade. I do not know when he first appeared. And he had already been expelled from all major platforms before I became active online.
He is not well-known because he has been banned from everything for a very long time. He has been running on the credibility he mustered 10+ years ago before all media platforms launched a concerted effort against him.
He is now mostly known for the socio-sexual hierarchy and for inventing the phrase sigma male. These are the subjects he writes about most because they are the least likely to incite further ire.
I see, I’m not familiar with him because I’m more French and have been keeping more and more to my linguistic corner and projects.
Anything of his you might recommend reading? I’ll look up his substack if you’ve the link.
He also has several substacks too. AI Central, Castalia (several of them covering different subjects of books they are reprinting), and Sigma Game (sic?) I'm subbed to most of them so you can click on my profile and find it in my followers if search fails you.
Sure thing, thanks and do feel free to subscribe to my lit-criticism, philosophy and webnovel focused stack in turn lmao.
already am
Cool, still I should look into his stuff after I finish reading for my next book club.
Recommend highly his take-over and destruction of the left's "Social Justice Warriors" as a usable concept for them. VERY well worth the read!
"SJWs Always Lie"
"SJWs Always Double Down"
There was to be an "SJWs Always Project" (Vox's Third Law of SJWs) but Vox got sidelined to the higher priority to write "Corporate Cancer: How to Work Miracles and Save Millions by Curing Your Company" -- essentially his warnings about and how to protect from SJWs coming in and destroying your organizations (companies, churches, social groups, etc.). And a different 'take' on SJWs "Cuckservative: How "Conservatives" Betrayed America" by Vox Day and John Red Eagle.
If you like economics; he's got several books, among the, "On the Question of Free Trade: An Economics Discourse" by Vox Day and Dr. James D. Miller PhD and "The Return of the Great Depression." Two thick books of his syndicated columns from a few decades ago. ("Innocence & Intellect, 2001-2005" and "Crisis & Conceit, 2006-2009"). I had expected them to be "old news" -- but they were 'of their time' yet also prescient! Plus some amazing fiction books and series, and some wonderful comic books.
I don’t mind philosophy stuff but am tired of economics (sorry). As to fiction I’ve just been told by pm about his fantasy story. What’s it called? Is it comparable in quality to my own? ;)
He's written several books on different subjects you might find interesting: Irrational Atheist, SJWs Always Lie, SJWs Always Double Down, Convergence, Cuckservative, The Next Great Depression (sic?), The Lie of Free Trade.
Oh ok, will have a look at them. Thanks for recommending them.
No problem
He wrote for WND back in the 90's (he knew Ben Shapiro from there) and early 00's...I recall finding him there and then jumping to his blog - which was also destroyed but he had a backup ready and it is still active: voxday.net. He used to be big in the video game scene (was a early game journo who I think wrote for EGM, or maybe it was PCGamer, can't recall right now. Alphagame.blogspot was the other blog that he started when the manosphere was a thing in the mid 00 to 2015/16....mansophere was Pickup Artistry 2.0 that progressed beyond the clown antics of Neal Strauss and Mystery and started turning the redpill lens on other subjects (RoissyDC/Chateau Heartiste helped with that too). Alphagame was where he articulated the fuller hierarchy.
If you start reading him just be ready for him to boast of his IQ every other sentence. Relentlessly self-absorbed and arrogant. He was a frontier species, great in the early days when there was nothing else to read, but now we have people that are better AND smarter.
I see that’s disappointing.
Nick Faustes? Thanks for explaining "groyper", a disgusting word I'd until now not understood despite seeing it almost daily. Given N Faustes' predilection for sarcasm, perhaps "groyper" is his insult to his "groupies".
When Fuentes makes his inevitable transition to a Democrat his stain will finally be transferred away from the right.
The palimpsest will remain.
Not very convincing tbh. To anyone under 30 hating on Groypers just seems like older people eschewing ownership of the problems they created. Fuentes deserves a lot of criticism but he is correct about Israel and feminism, two of the most important issues of our day and age and the two issues most right wing people didn’t touch either out of cowardice or being sellouts. Same thing when people criticize Andrew Tate. Only people that are genuine Catholic patriarchs who understand the problems and actively fight against them really had any ground to stand on when criticizing these guys. Otherwise, to young guys at least, it just sounds like slightly edgier David French
Reread the piece. You didn't understand what was being said.
In fairness I agree with a lot of what you’re saying about building institutions rather than focusing on fickle news reactions. I just think having contempt for groypers and getting mad at them for not growing up after the culture destroyed all avenues for doing so is a dereliction of duty. I’m 29 and it took me insane amounts of effort (and luck) to find a wife that could be a good Catholic mother (which required me to do lots of cultural deprogramming), get a good enough job and get continued promotions, and buy a house. For my age range there’s only like 12% of guys that have done that and I don’t think I’m better than the 88% I think we just completely destroyed society for the young to support boomers, feminism, and Israel.
Will acting like an insane man-child solve any problem we've inherited?
(I'm 31.)
This is the groyper logos and ethos:
"Feminism is bad. Israel is bad. The older generations screwed us. Therefore, we should be insufferable assholes to everyone in our general vicinity and appeal to the fact that we've inherited social decay in order to absolve ourselves of the responsibility to do anything."
"he is correct about Israel and feminism, two of the most important issues of our day and age"
So is Vox Day, but instead of just whining and snarling and complaining, VOX DAY is teaching and building things to try to stop the destruction. Groypers may have childish FUN, but Vox's "followers" are BUILDING the future!!
Vox is a man. Fuentes is untrustworthy and repellent.
I appreciated Vox Day in the early days but have happily moved on. We have philosophers and leaders on the Right now who are much more stable, less self-absorbed, and smarter. Not saying Nick Fuentes is one of those people.
Vox Day got a million dollars from his supporters then lost it to financial scammers. We're talking African prince-level stuff. I have no idea how anyone takes him seriously after that.
Never heard of that.
This entire piece is pretty much just polemic.
Regardless of the influence of Vox, or the importance of all the things you are advocating here, it's undeniable that Fuentes has had and is growing in influence, which is power.
His methods are having an impact, and you did not refute that in this piece.
About that impact…
Article:
https://www.chrisbrunet.com/p/top-50-nick-fuentes-pedophile-scandals?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3M8xlN2hVI
A polemical reply to me calling your post polemical.
I can post links too you know https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=non+sequitor
Sigh.
Never change. This is who you are meant to be. The way you are now is the way that will bring about your best life. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
And even if a thousand proofs are brought against Nick Fuentes, none of them indict. In fact, they prove his excellence — and yours. You’ll know why.
Nice. A third polemic, this time against me. Fascinating
We are not talking about Fuentes's excellence or whether he needs to be condemned. Or, well, you might be, but that's a conversation you're having with yourself.
I was only critiquing your claim that your article somehow refuted his influence. But perhaps that's a conversation I was also having with myself...
I get it. You learned the word polemic. You even used it correctly once.